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Oppi

Men's Rights Movement

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Oppi    32

What are your thoughts on the men's rights movement (MRM)? Do you think it's a good or bad thing? Do you consider yourself a men's right activist/advocate (MRA)? Do you think the MRM is necessary? Do you think it's just a hate group? How do you feel about it in relation to feminism? Discuss.

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ragreynolds    762

I think that it's more justified than feminism, simply because MRAs aren't spreading false narratives, and men genuinely have more things going against them than women these days. However, I think that the vast majority of MRAs come off as crybabies and 'beta males' :lol: 

I don't think the men's rights movement is necessary, just as I don't think feminism is necessary. I will say the same now as I usually say to feminists, and that is that you should be egalitarian instead.

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Oppi    32
1 minute ago, ragreynolds said:

I think that it's more justified than feminism, simply because MRAs aren't spreading false narratives, and men genuinely have more things going against them than women these days. However, I think that the vast majority of MRAs come off as crybabies and 'beta males' :lol: 

I don't think the men's rights movement is necessary, just as I don't think feminism is necessary. I will say the same now as I usually say to feminists, and that is that you should be egalitarian instead.

Do you think the issues they try to bring to the forefront are legitimate issues that deserve discussion or just whining/over reaction?

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ragreynolds    762
1 hour ago, Oppi said:

Do you think the issues they try to bring to the forefront are legitimate issues that deserve discussion or just whining/over reaction?

Most of the issues are legitimate issues, I just think that they often go about it in the wrong way. Every encounter I've ever had or heard about with a vocal MRA has seemed like pathetic whining and crying.

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Oppi    32
13 minutes ago, ragreynolds said:

Most of the issues are legitimate issues, I just think that they often go about it in the wrong way. Every encounter I've ever had or heard about with a vocal MRA has seemed like pathetic whining and crying.

Have you watched The Red Pill yet?

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Oppi    32
56 minutes ago, His_Majesty_Jimmy_I said:

We all have the same de facto rights by law in most western countries when it comes to gender...now the rest it's how it's applied.

In the US while most MRM issues are more how men are treated and viewed in society and court systems and the like, there are a few things that are legal rights that women have that men don't: the right to genital integrity and the right to not be forced to sign their life away to the military.

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Seeker    113

The problem I have with the MRM is the same problem I have with feminism. When the original issues have been dealt with, it'll end up as a movement desperately trying to stay relevant, either by shaming tactics, fabricated claims of inequality or even blatant distortion of reality. Egalitarian or bust.

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1 hour ago, Seeker said:

The problem I have with the MRM is the same problem I have with feminism. When the original issues have been dealt with, it'll end up as a movement desperately trying to stay relevant, either by shaming tactics, fabricated claims of inequality or even blatant distortion of reality. Egalitarian or bust.

👆

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Oppi    32
1 hour ago, Sappho said:

😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

 

 

That's what I think

cry happy cat

In other words you have no real thoughts, you just want to act like it's a joke with no valid reasoning.

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On 6/17/2017 at 7:17 PM, Oppi said:

In other words you have no real thoughts, you just want to act like it's a joke with no valid reasoning.

You mean like people do with feminism? :rolleyes:

Personally, i think all rights activism is important. The only people i ever see dismiss it are either trying to impress people or complain about having more or less rights and not actually do anything about it except whine. Whether they become obsolete doesn't really matter as i feel that having people who are ready to fight for your rights is hugely important and stops complacency, especially for men who can still be raped and face huge injustices through social and law interactions.

Saying that however, no matter how many rights people have, in my circles what people are fighting for is mostly social equality, not law equality, law equality is applied for all and unless youre going to fight for law changes, don't expect them to happen with ease, you need to petition, check weekly on gov websites for law changes and this weeks agenda and give yourself real presence. Personally, I know i am going to get slack for this, but how we are treated socially is a huge issue, I am in a business partnership with my boyfriend and face daily struggles with just the way I am treated, but actually so does he and when discussed outside our peer groups, we get told by the opposite genders that this is a none issue and it is no big deal how you're talked to and treated, but actually that is a huge social issue when it comes to me telling women how i am treated and him telling men. The way i see it, is as long as there are still people who can stop me from excelling because of my gender, partnership and their idea of who i am because of those two things and he the same then I still need people to go "that's not okay".

What needs to happen and i feel it is happening more and more is people will reach a point where they will abandon feminism and MRM and take on the title of egalitarian and only the real die hards will hold onto those labels. Saying that however, in my circles (please dont quote me and then go but in MY circles, because thats anecdotal to you and this to me and doesn't make yours anymore right than mine) feminists aren't just fighting for rights for women, they are fighting for that social equality for everyone and genuinely do want men and women to be treated equally by the law, but in the same breath so are MRA's. I guess though, depending on your political and moral circles MRM and Feminism will differ greatly.

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ragreynolds    762
4 minutes ago, EndangeredShark said:

You mean like people do with feminism? :rolleyes:

Personally, i think all rights activism is important. The only people i ever see dismiss it are either trying to impress people or complain about having more or less rights and not actually do anything about it except whine. Whether they become obsolete doesn't really matter as i feel that having people who are ready to fight for your rights is hugely important and stops complacency, especially for men who can still be raped and face huge injustices through social and law interactions.

Saying that however, no matter how many rights people have, in my circles what people are fighting for is mostly social equality, not law equality, law equality is applied for all and unless youre going to fight for law changes, don't expect them to happen with ease, you need to petition, check weekly on gov websites for law changes and this weeks agenda and give yourself real presence. Personally, I know i am going to get slack for this, but how we are treated socially is a huge issue, I am in a business partnership with my boyfriend and face daily struggles with just the way I am treated, but actually so does he and when discussed outside our peer groups, we get told by the opposite genders that this is a none issue and it is no big deal how you're talked to and treated, but actually that is a huge social issue when it comes to me telling women how i am treated and him telling men. The way i see it, is as long as there are still people who can stop me from excelling because of my gender, partnership and their idea of who i am because of those two things and he the same then I still need people to go "that's not okay".

What needs to happen and i feel it is happening more and more is people will reach a point where they will abandon feminism and MRM and take on the title of egalitarian and only the real die hards will hold onto those labels. Saying that however, in my circles (please dont quote me and then go but in MY circles, because thats anecdotal to you and this to me and doesn't make yours anymore right than mine) feminists aren't just fighting for rights for women, they are fighting for that social equality for everyone and genuinely do want men and women to be treated equally by the law, but in the same breath so are MRA's. I guess though, depending on your political and moral circles MRM and Feminism will differ greatly.

I agree with most of what you're saying. Although your "Just like people do with feminism" point is dumb. Feminists are widely respected across the media and in the world of education. MRAs on the other hand are seen as a joke by almost all of those same people. Even I, a person who is adamantly against the notion that feminism in the present day is doing any good, find MRA groups to often times be pathetic. And the difference is, when people criticise MRA groups, it is almost never in regards to the actual issues they are fighting over, but rather it tends to be over the way those people come across and how they go about it.

Yes, the same thing happens with people who critique feminism, but there is also a large demographic of people such as myself who actually criticise feminism as a movement over what they say they are fighting over. Some examples would be the ridiculous notion that we live in a rape culture, the nonsense '1 in 5 women are raped at college' statistic, and the nonsense they spout about the wage gap (that has been debunked so much now that it's becoming a joke). MRAs aren't associated with any of that sort of misinformation (to my knowledge at least). You absolutely cannot deny that feminism is a far more mainstream and accepted movement than anything MRA related.

But yes, hopefully in time everyone will just abandon the MRA and feminist labels altogether. I'm not even really a fan of the egalitarian label. I personally think we should just label ourselves as 'pieces of shit' and 'decent human beings'.

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lily    2

If MRAs actually focussed on male rights and not being simply anti-feminist/ant-SJW then maybe people would take them seriously. 

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Oppi    32
6 hours ago, EndangeredShark said:

--snip--

There are plenty of valid criticisms for both the MRM and feminism. My point was she had none.

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7 hours ago, Oppi said:

There are plenty of valid criticisms for both the MRM and feminism. My point was she had none.

As I was gonna say to Ryan but couldn't be bothered for an essay of a response. It was more of a dig at the right leaning who dismisses a viewpoint and mocks it because feminism. More of a dig than a political fact.

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ragreynolds    762
17 minutes ago, EndangeredShark said:

As I was gonna say to Ryan but couldn't be bothered for an essay of a response. It was more of a dig at the right leaning who dismisses a viewpoint and mocks it because feminism. More of a dig than a political fact.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU HAD NO POINT EITHER? Fucking snake.

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14 hours ago, ragreynolds said:

Saying that however, no matter how many rights people have, in my circles what people are fighting for is mostly social equality, not law equality, law equality is applied for all and unless youre going to fight for law changes, don't expect them to happen with ease, you need to petition, check weekly on gov websites for law changes and this weeks agenda and give yourself real presence. Personally, I know i am going to get slack for this, but how we are treated socially is a huge issue, I am in a business partnership with my boyfriend and face daily struggles with just the way I am treated, but actually so does he and when discussed outside our peer groups, we get told by the opposite genders that this is a none issue and it is no big deal how you're talked to and treated, but actually that is a huge social issue when it comes to me telling women how i am treated and him telling men. The way i see it, is as long as there are still people who can stop me from excelling because of my gender, partnership and their idea of who i am because of those two things and he the same then I still need people to go "that's not okay".

So you're in a  business, this must mean that you have somewhat of a left wing mindset at least, this is how business works and thrives, so why do you care with how people "treat you" in regards to your business  as long as people are partaking of your services or buying your goods? Serious question. 

 

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Maybe people will think I'm trolling here when I say what I am about to say, but I'm not. I think more pf a "traditional" mindset.

I don't think men and women will ever be equal and I don't think it should even be thought about. Yes there are some things that they should have equality to a degree, like land and home ownership and the ability  to have families of their own and work, yes those things should be equal for everyone, but men and women are "wired" differently, in a mental, physical and biological level. Not  that there arent  big and tall women out there, because there are but men are most likely to be taller than women and stronger than women, while women can withstand more physical pain (Like Childbirth... because women were made for that reason) while men typically have more stamina, endurance and strength than women. Neither one is bad or wrong, they're just different in that way and socially even, men and women are different. Am I saying we should make women ride in the back of the bus? No, not at all. If your man needs help making ends meet ladies, go and help him and get that job or education to make ends meet! 

My views are in no way "Women should be barefoot and pregnant all the time" but men have been in charge (whether or not you believe anything of the bible) since Adam and Eve Maybe I'm biased on the majority of women I meet, I don't like them and one could even say since Adam and Eve, women have lured men into corruption and even now, women were the ones who started the feminist movement which has created a sort of divide in the genders and men feeling like they need more rights because of these select stupid few feminists. Are all feminists stupid? No, just the stupid ones. If you have ever worn a vagina costume in a feminist parade, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you! 

I feel like it's women's job to support, nurture and be gentle and it's the man's job to be protective, supportive and providing for his family home. 

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ragreynolds    762
16 minutes ago, Ludwig_Van said:

Maybe people will think I'm trolling here when I say what I am about to say, but I'm not. I think more pf a "traditional" mindset.

I don't think men and women will ever be equal and I don't think it should even be thought about. Yes there are some things that they should have equality to a degree, like land and home ownership and the ability  to have families of their own and work, yes those things should be equal for everyone, but men and women are "wired" differently, in a mental, physical and biological level. Not  that there arent  big and tall women out there, because there are but men are most likely to be taller than women and stronger than women, while women can withstand more physical pain (Like Childbirth... because women were made for that reason) while men typically have more stamina, endurance and strength than women. Neither one is bad or wrong, they're just different in that way and socially even, men and women are different. Am I saying we should make women ride in the back of the bus? No, not at all. If your man needs help making ends meet ladies, go and help him and get that job or education to make ends meet! 

My views are in no way "Women should be barefoot and pregnant all the time" but men have been in charge (whether or not you believe anything of the bible) since Adam and Eve Maybe I'm biased on the majority of women I meet, I don't like them and one could even say since Adam and Eve, women have lured men into corruption and even now, women were the ones who started the feminist movement which has created a sort of divide in the genders and men feeling like they need more rights because of these select stupid few feminists. Are all feminists stupid? No, just the stupid ones. If you have ever worn a vagina costume in a feminist parade, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you! 

I feel like it's women's job to support, nurture and be gentle and it's the man's job to be protective, supportive and providing for his family home. 

So long as the woman is choosing to take that supporting role, and so long as the man is choosing to take that providing role, then that is absolutely fine. You are entitled to run your household that way if that is the way you choose to, just as other people are entitled to run their household in whichever way they choose.

Yes, men and women tend to have different strengths and weaknesses. They are different. However, neither men nor women should be prevented from doing something they want to do simply because of their sex. Equality is about giving people equal opportunities and treating them all with the same level of respect. Women should be allowed to serve in the military or be firefighters, but only on the condition that they are passing the same standard of tests as the men are. I have seen many examples of females trying out to be a firefighter and they have had the standards lowered simply because they are a woman. Here are some examples of shady things going on:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3066710/Woman-set-FDNY-firefighter-spite-failing-grueling-physical-fitness-test.html
http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/
http://www.returnofkings.com/73532/why-are-female-firefighters-allowed-to-graduate-after-failing-physical-exams
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375381/Fire-service-strength-fitness-tests-relaxed-allow-women-firefighters.html

And those are just the first few Google search results. There are loads more.

Men should pretty much always completely outnumber women in firefighter jobs and military jobs. There will be women who can stand up to the same physical standards as men can, but for the most part, they usually can't. Diversity quotas are another thing that need to just go away.

The point I'm making is: equality is possible, and we already have it for the most part. Everyone gets the same opportunities, in fact, women get more opportunities than men now. The problem comes when people start striving for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. As far as social equality goes, that's the area that needs more work I suppose. That's the area that I don't think is possible to ever achieve proper equality in. There will always be assholes in the world, and if there are assholes, there will be sexists. Sexists are the only people who are holding anyone back.

TL;DR: So long as everyone is given the same opportunities and right to make up their own minds, then you can do whatever you please.

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1 hour ago, Ludwig_Van said:

So you're in a  business, this must mean that you have somewhat of a left wing mindset at least, this is how business works and thrives, so why do you care with how people "treat you" in regards to your business  as long as people are partaking of your services or buying your goods? Serious question. 

 

I assume this was to me, Just because you're the customer and I'm the staff, doesn't mean you get to belittle and disrespect me, I am not a shop I am in the tourism/education sector so if you are coming to me then I and everyone around you expect to be treated with respect, just because you know everything doesn't mean you're helping those trying to learn by talking over me or my staff until assistance of the opposite gender come along and talk with the group where you shut up, infact, I will already receive complaints about that behavior from the group around you. Business people wise, I don't know many left leaning men in business and it shows as they are often disrespectful to me and we've lost grants because of his penis. Everybody should always strive to be talked too with respect and treated on an equal level whether you're a CEO an intern or a customer or even a potential investor. That's just the way I feel.

15 minutes ago, ragreynolds said:

 

TL;DR: So long as everyone is given the same opportunities and right to make up their own minds, then you can do whatever you please.

I agree, I also find that woman who want to be in these industries will train to their hardest for the standards needed.

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Oppi    32
4 hours ago, ragreynolds said:

TL;DR: So long as everyone is given the same opportunities and right to make up their own minds, then you can do whatever you please.

Equal opportunity, not equal outcome. That's the part that lots of feminists seem to miss.

 

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Used to be for mans rights because I couldn't get over the fact that I wasn't getting any and then I realised with great pleasure that cold ones is the greatest privilege I was ever offered.

My feminist bashing days are over, it's just a dead 2016 meme now tbh.

Cold ones is the new way!

I urge you to pick a cold one and stop worrying about who has more or less rights. The world would be so much better if we all just stopped giving a fuck.

tenor.gif

_________

The only thing I care about now is that bloody budget

6087552.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=respo

Edited by His_Majesty_Jimmy_I
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