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ragreynolds

Cyberbullying

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ragreynolds    759

We've all heard the term, but what does it actually mean, and what should the repercussions be for it (if any)?

It's no secret that I'm of the mindset that cyberbullying isn't really a thing. Bullying is a thing, but I don't believe cyberbullying is. Now there's a few points and examples I'd like to give on this. So first, let's talk about what actual bullying is. When I think of bullying, I think of a kid in school being verbally picked on every day, perhaps even physically assaulted. I think of an odd kid being left out of everything because no one wants to talk to them. I think of a kid sitting at the front of a classroom and hearing people gossip about them and saying nasty things from the back of the classroom. Everything I think of is a situation in which the victim has no way to reasonably escape. They can't just stop going to school, and they can't be expected to never go outside again. That's what makes bullying so awful. The fact that there's no way to escape it. If it were as simple as just making it stop and never experience it from those people again, then it wouldn't be bullying. Instead, those single altercations would be just that: altercations. Those people would be harassing you, not bullying you.

Now, imagine you're on Twitter, then randomly someone starts tweeting you a bunch of insults and being nasty to you. Are you seriously going to compare that to what we just described where a kid is being treated like shit every day and can't escape it? If you're on Twitter, all you have to do is hit the block button, then you'll never hear from them again. Oh, but what if they make another account, you ask? Well then you block that account, or you set your account to private. There is always a way of escaping these altercations online.

The only time you cannot escape these situations online, is when the people who are being nasty to you online, are people from your offline life. If someone random person on Twitter says "I'm going to beat you up tomorrow", you can just block them and move on. You don't have to think anything of it. You don't know them. But if it's someone from your school who sends that same message to you, suddenly you're going to start worrying about going to school tomorrow. This would be a form of bullying. The thing is, the only reason that it is bullying, is because it is directly influencing your offline life, meaning that you cannot escape it. That's what makes it bullying. There is nothing 'cyber' about it. Sure, the initial message was made online, but it was made online about a future offline altercation. I think it is insulting to call this sort of thing 'cyberbullying'. I think it demeans victims of actual bullying when you use this term.

As far as punishments and the law goes, I think it's a very hard area to police. There's a very fine line between policing actual harassment online and policing free speech. I'm strongly of the opinion that so long as you do not use your words to threaten or encourage others to physically harm another person, then you should be able to say whatever you want with absolutely no legal repercussions. It doesn't matter if you are saying black people are scum, and it doesn't matter if you're calling someone and ugly whale. So long as you are not threatening or inciting violence against another person, you should be able to say anything. So sure, a bunch of people might be being horrible to you online. Maybe they're insulting you every day for years on end. In the end, I think you need to grow thicker skin. If you're too weak for that then block them. If you can't block them, stop using the same websites as them. If you can't do that, close your computer.

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I'm okay with people being mean over the internet. It's called freedom of speech. It's part of human rights to be able to say what you want.

When I suppose you cross the line is when you incite physical violence. 

So if I said "I urge everyone to kill x person or punch x person" then that's crossing the line because then if I was a mob boss and I told people to kill or hurt people then I'm responsible for that too. 

So online you can call people what ever they like, you can be the worse dick in the world even if what you doing is wrong I'm fine with you doing it because it's your right to speak your mind. However if you inciting physical violence by persuading your followers to do something illegal by telling them to physically hurt someone then you've crossed the line. The 1st amendment doesn't protect people inciting immediate violence.

Now I'm a firm believer of a free market. If youtube wants to censor people then it is their right as a business and it's their prerogative even if they'll lose some customers. People get their knickers in a twist and SHOUT 'MEH RIGHTS, MEH RIGHTS' and 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH', if a private business wants to censor you for bullying then it's their right as a private company, same with private universities. 

I do not believe that there should be regulation that ensures that private businesses need to upheld freedom of speech and I also do not believe that there should be legislation limiting that speech. No legislation on speech is better law. 

Government has no room at telling people what's right to say and what's not but it isn't their right also at forcing private businesses to upheld freedom of speech.

If I go to a store and the owner has a sign of no swearing, I will respect that because if I don't he has the right to kick me out.

Facebook has the right censor people for bullying because they are private business even if it's bad.

Edited by The_Right_Honourable_Jimmy

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ragreynolds    759
1 hour ago, The_Right_Honourable_Jimmy said:

Now I'm a firm believer of a free market. If youtube wants to censor people then it is their right as a business and it's their prerogative even if they'll lose some customers. People get their knickers in a twist and SHOUT 'MEH RIGHTS, MEH RIGHTS' and 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH', if a private business wants to censor you for bullying then it's their right as a private company, same with private universities. 

I do not believe that there should be regulation that ensures that private businesses need to upheld freedom of speech and I also do not believe that there should be legislation limiting that speech. No legislation on speech is better law. 

Government has no room at telling people what's right to say and what's not but it isn't their right also at forcing private businesses to upheld freedom of speech.

If I go to a store and the owner has a sign of no swearing, I will respect that because if I don't he has the right to kick me out.

Facebook has the right censor people for bullying because they are private business even if it's bad.

4

I agree for the most part that yes, private companies can do as they like. If they don't want you to say things on their platform, then they can remove you from that platform. That's their right. However, when you have a company such as Facebook, it is a company that is so big, and the product is no longer just any other website. Facebook is something that pretty much everyone you meet in the UK or US has. I don't think any of my family don't have it, even the ones that can barely work their phones or a computer. Facebook is a part of normal day-to-day life, and because of that, it has so much influence over what people see and over what people think. An example would be: If during the election this year Facebook decided the Tories were disgusting and they were only going to promote positive Labour stories, and they were going to block all posts that showed the Tory's in a positive light, Facebook would actually manipulate people into seeing political parties a certain way, and in turn, they would manipulate how the election went down. Yes, they're a private company, but they're too big to be allowed to wield that amount of influence however they see fit.

YouTube is maybe not as big of a deal, although there's certainly a similar sort of argument to be made since there are really no viable alternatives to Facebook at the moment (not because they don't exist, but because the userbases aren't big enough). But Facebook is certainly a company that needs to be kept in check. The company itself and how it operates should still be free to do absolutely anything it wants, but the actual service is at a point where it just isn't right to let them have all that power to manipulate the way that people see the world. Facebook is so big that even when you go into restaurants and most other public places, they all have Facebook logos on the walls. Even movie trailers tell you to check out Facebook at the end, and it's constant on the TV and on the radio. Facebook is an ingrained service now. It is no longer just a regular old website.

The only other website I feel this strongly about is Google. If Google decides to censor certain search results, they can influence far too much. They have too much influence over the world. I'm talking solely about Google Search Engine here, not YouTube or any other Google owned websites.

Other than Google or Facebook, the argument is very strong to say websites can do as they please. But That will not stop me from bombarding them with hate or critique over making decisions that I deem to be horrendous.

But yeah, all I'm getting at is that both Google and Facebook are both far too prominent in everyday life to be considered any old company/website. The way things are right now, they are almost an essential service.

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5 hours ago, ragreynolds said:

I agree for the most part that yes, private companies can do as they like. If they don't want you to say things on their platform, then they can remove you from that platform. That's their right. However, when you have a company such as Facebook, it is a company that is so big, and the product is no longer just any other website. Facebook is something that pretty much everyone you meet in the UK or US has. I don't think any of my family don't have it, even the ones that can barely work their phones or a computer. Facebook is a part of normal day-to-day life, and because of that, it has so much influence over what people see and over what people think. An example would be: If during the election this year Facebook decided the Tories were disgusting and they were only going to promote positive Labour stories, and they were going to block all posts that showed the Tory's in a positive light, Facebook would actually manipulate people into seeing political parties a certain way, and in turn, they would manipulate how the election went down. Yes, they're a private company, but they're too big to be allowed to wield that amount of influence however they see fit.

YouTube is maybe not as big of a deal, although there's certainly a similar sort of argument to be made since there are really no viable alternatives to Facebook at the moment (not because they don't exist, but because the userbases aren't big enough). But Facebook is certainly a company that needs to be kept in check. The company itself and how it operates should still be free to do absolutely anything it wants, but the actual service is at a point where it just isn't right to let them have all that power to manipulate the way that people see the world. Facebook is so big that even when you go into restaurants and most other public places, they all have Facebook logos on the walls. Even movie trailers tell you to check out Facebook at the end, and it's constant on the TV and on the radio. Facebook is an ingrained service now. It is no longer just a regular old website.

The only other website I feel this strongly about is Google. If Google decides to censor certain search results, they can influence far too much. They have too much influence over the world. I'm talking solely about Google Search Engine here, not YouTube or any other Google owned websites.

Other than Google or Facebook, the argument is very strong to say websites can do as they please. But That will not stop me from bombarding them with hate or critique over making decisions that I deem to be horrendous.

But yeah, all I'm getting at is that both Google and Facebook are both far too prominent in everyday life to be considered any old company/website. The way things are right now, they are almost an essential service.

Well yeah I agree and they should see that they have a responsibility.

However the market always regulates itself. If they start going mad on censoring, you'll see that they'll lose customers. If they have a left leaning bias, well, we have a conservative government meaning that the majority of people are conservative. There are quite a lot of press intended for a Conservative audience like The Daily Telegraph and many other ones. If they start censoring more right wing beliefs and what's considered freedom of speech, the press will get point it out. They'll probably lose customers and people's demand for a free speech platform will grow and someone will come and fill that market demand with another site. What is probably going to happen however is that Facebook will give in and go back at being a free platform because they are business that depends on its constumers.

Although wanting the government to regulate big companies is something that someone who favours big government will say, someone who's anti-buisness. If most of their twitter's customers want a bully free site then it's their right to do so and a good business decision. All they are doing is listening to their costumers. I'll either accept the rules or use a different website.

The free market will regulate itself if they go off their rails. Trust me unless we avoid controlling the web, it'll provide a free platform, somewhere.

If youtube goes mad with censoring then another site will pop up to fill that demand.

Also I disagree with the whole notion of they are an essential service. Any other website can do what they do. I could survive without Facebook for a week. I've done for years in the past. I just like to debate people and comment on stuff but I can do that elsewhere anyway. I could text my mates, I don't need messenger for that.

Edited by The_Right_Honourable_Jimmy

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So I think that we all probably grew up where the internet was just getting its jets going, when I was in school 8 years ago they would often tell us they can't do anything about online bullying unless it was brought onto school grounds and even then what can you do past banning websites or excluding a pupil it'll still continue.

But that was at least what they said when I was 16 and online bullying wasn't a thing. Personally, I think the internet is probably one of the easiest places to get away from it and if it continues in school and you're being bullied in school the schools can then sort it out if they aren't incompetent, but that all depends on if they stop their online campaign.

I know high school is different and having recently reconnected with my fathers brother and his family on a more personal level, I've seen some horrible things posted about my 16 year old cousin, I've seen people post other girls rape cases online all because they didn't believe their friend could do it for their friend to be found guilty and watched the hate, which couldn't be escaped because it seeped into her real life, my cousin got harassed non stop and her life threatened, all because she blocked a boy who couldn't take no for an answer, I've watched their mothers make them both apologise online because their behaviour was disgraceful. I think though that's the fine line between aging into an adult, where you don't really care about what you're doing and you'll make mistakes regarding other people but you will regret what you did. When you're a teen dealing with both social and online all in one it can get toxic very quickly and the only thing that you can do is remove and block and hope they give up. All in all, it is just bullying verging on harassment on this level and when you are in school I think that there needs to be a level of online safety the schools are taking with you to protect you, at least in school hours and if it is a police case being exposed that's still being undertaken then they should do more to protect both sides in these cases too.

 

If you're an adult still undertaking these activities, that's a whole heap of why haven't you grown up? Theres a difference between a joke and a barrage of abuse and it is sad to see that you're in your 20s for instance and you still haven't realised you're behaving like a 14 year old and if your behaviour and you are ever found out, you could lose a lot more than your anonymity online. If you're an adult who thinks you're suffering from cyber bullying, its your job to learn that you are in control of the way people act towards you, you can block them, remove them as your friends, you can erase these people and if it continues into ongoing harassment then get the police involved, but a joke you don't like isnt bullying, an argument that didn't go your way isnt bullying, how people act towards you isnt bullying and how people change towards you isnt bullying and that's your job to assess and decide what you can and cannot cope with. As an adult, I definitely feel like theres no excuse to bully or be bullied online, I feel there is only harassment, but as a teen in school, I do think its harder to avoid and fix.

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Harry_Hilter    95
18 hours ago, ragreynolds said:

We've all heard the term, but what does it actually mean, and what should the repercussions be for it (if any)?

It's no secret that I'm of the mindset that cyberbullying isn't really a thing. Bullying is a thing, but I don't believe cyberbullying is. Now there's a few points and examples I'd like to give on this. So first, let's talk about what actual bullying is. When I think of bullying, I think of a kid in school being verbally picked on every day, perhaps even physically assaulted. I think of an odd kid being left out of everything because no one wants to talk to them. I think of a kid sitting at the front of a classroom and hearing people gossip about them and saying nasty things from the back of the classroom. Everything I think of is a situation in which the victim has no way to reasonably escape. They can't just stop going to school, and they can't be expected to never go outside again. That's what makes bullying so awful. The fact that there's no way to escape it. If it were as simple as just making it stop and never experience it from those people again, then it wouldn't be bullying. Instead, those single altercations would be just that: altercations. Those people would be harassing you, not bullying you.

Now, imagine you're on Twitter, then randomly someone starts tweeting you a bunch of insults and being nasty to you. Are you seriously going to compare that to what we just described where a kid is being treated like shit every day and can't escape it? If you're on Twitter, all you have to do is hit the block button, then you'll never hear from them again. Oh, but what if they make another account, you ask? Well then you block that account, or you set your account to private. There is always a way of escaping these altercations online.

The only time you cannot escape these situations online, is when the people who are being nasty to you online, are people from your offline life. If someone random person on Twitter says "I'm going to beat you up tomorrow", you can just block them and move on. You don't have to think anything of it. You don't know them. But if it's someone from your school who sends that same message to you, suddenly you're going to start worrying about going to school tomorrow. This would be a form of bullying. The thing is, the only reason that it is bullying, is because it is directly influencing your offline life, meaning that you cannot escape it. That's what makes it bullying. There is nothing 'cyber' about it. Sure, the initial message was made online, but it was made online about a future offline altercation. I think it is insulting to call this sort of thing 'cyberbullying'. I think it demeans victims of actual bullying when you use this term.

As far as punishments and the law goes, I think it's a very hard area to police. There's a very fine line between policing actual harassment online and policing free speech. I'm strongly of the opinion that so long as you do not use your words to threaten or encourage others to physically harm another person, then you should be able to say whatever you want with absolutely no legal repercussions. It doesn't matter if you are saying black people are scum, and it doesn't matter if you're calling someone and ugly whale. So long as you are not threatening or inciting violence against another person, you should be able to say anything. So sure, a bunch of people might be being horrible to you online. Maybe they're insulting you every day for years on end. In the end, I think you need to grow thicker skin. If you're too weak for that then block them. If you can't block them, stop using the same websites as them. If you can't do that, close your computer.

I completely support this, but  I must say here as well that the World really isn't getting any better and is as still corrupted as ever, the doomsday clock has two and a half minutes till midnight, but I digress. The world isn't getting better. This is one of the soundest things that I have heard in my life, it makes sense, a lot of sense, I liked all of it, but the last  paragraph in particular:

18 hours ago, ragreynolds said:

As far as punishments and the law goes, I think it's a very hard area to police. There's a very fine line between policing actual harassment online and policing free speech. I'm strongly of the opinion that so long as you do not use your words to threaten or encourage others to physically harm another person, then you should be able to say whatever you want with absolutely no legal repercussions. It doesn't matter if you are saying black people are scum, and it doesn't matter if you're calling someone and ugly whale. So long as you are not threatening or inciting violence against another person, you should be able to say anything. So sure, a bunch of people might be being horrible to you online. Maybe they're insulting you every day for years on end. In the end, I think you need to grow thicker skin. If you're too weak for that then block them. If you can't block them, stop using the same websites as them. If you can't do that, close your computer

I was in freshman year of Highschool before we had computers in school for kids to use, before that I got bullied "the right way" if you want to think of it like that, face to face. as If more people thought like Ryan, people wouldn't want to do crazy things to each other, or to  shoot up schools or colleges, or blow places up, all the madness of the human race. 

Do  I  support bullying at all? No, but people are going to do all kinds of fucked up things, our reactions to their asshattery should be  the main focal point. 

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Harry_Hilter    95

I'm not saying  who this person is, what they were holding before this picture happened or anything about it, since this is a topic of cyber bullying, I thought I could share something on that topic as well, a visual if you will. I don't think the subject of this photo ever saw it. 

PB_Gaylon_Dildo.jpg

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Seeker    113

As far as I'm concerned, Ryan's hit the nail on the head. Cyberbullying isn't an issue, at least not currently. If the future of education goes mostly digital, then we might have issues with kids being assholes to each other on a platform that's mandatory for them to use, but I doubt it'd be a major one as long as identities are easily traceable and it keeps proper logs (so that if bullying does happen, it's immediately clear, unless the bully gains access to another student's ID or something like that.)

 

As it stands today, cyberbullying is just an umbrella term for social media communication that the recipient finds unpleasant, inflammatory, offensive, hurtful, etc. The owners of the platform should be free to dictate what isn't allowed on the platform and are usually (99%) generous enough to provide users with a report and/or block function. I personally believe the solution to our current 'cyberbullying epidemic' is for people to grow thicker skin, but if not that, just filter out the stuff you don't want to see. Ez pz like ur mum.

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